Leading Through Crisis with Leslie Ito

Trent Stamp:
Welcome to How We Run, a podcast where we examine how nonprofits become successful. I’m Trent Stamp, CEO of the Eisner Foundation.

Julie Lacouture:
And I’m Julie Lacouture, founder of Good Ways, Inc. On this episode, we have Leslie Ito of the Armory Art Center in Pasadena talking about organizational turnarounds and leadership during crisis.
Okay, Trent, at the beginning of this season I said one of the things I really wanted to do was find somebody that had been through an organization turnaround. Do you remember that?

Trent Stamp:
Of course. I remember. I remember everything you tell me.

Julie Lacouture:
And then you told me I was searching for a feel good sports movie.

Trent Stamp:
Yeah. CBS After School Special, the down on their outs organization that is going to go under because of the horrible big bad corporate landlord, and if they just hold enough car watches, they can save the organization.

Julie Lacouture:
You got it.

Trent Stamp:
It doesn’t happen very much in real life. Usually when an organization is going under, there are reasons for it, and it doesn’t come back.

Julie Lacouture:
Well, cue the feelgood sports music, because I talked to Leslie Ito, who today runs Armory Arts in Pasadena, but it was about her previous experience at the Japanese American cultural and community center. She took over from a failed leadership transition and took over an organization that was having trouble financially. And she talked me through how they got through that time. And now that’s an organization that is, I would say thriving.

Trent Stamp:
I know Leslie a little bit, and I suspect that she probably told you that they got through the organization with nothing having to do with her exceptional leadership. And I can guarantee you, that’s utter nonsense. She’s a relatively unassuming leader, but she’s a powerful leader who made some important decisions and ran that organization with great conviction and confidence to turn it around. And now she’s moved on to a different organization where I’m sure she’ll create more positive impacts, but she’s another one of these humble leaders that we’ve encountered this season on How We Run, who tries to give all the credit to someone other than themselves, but clearly deserves a fair share of it, at least.

Julie Lacouture:
When you’ve seen organizations be able to make that turnaround, what have you seen the leaders do?

Trent Stamp:
I think they’ve done a couple of things, but the first one being that they have identified what exactly does that organization do? Because I think a lot of times those types of organizations that are struggling have had some mission creep, have kind of lost their focus, or maybe they are doing the one thing that they’re really good at. So I think a lot of times the leader comes in and looks around and says, what is it that we do, and how do we do it well? I think that they have to have a vision, because usually when you look at their balance sheet, it’s not where you want it to be as a funder. So you’re going to need some assurance that the balance sheet’s going to get where it needs to get. And so there’s a true vision there.
And then I do think that there is kind of a collaborative leadership that seems to be common in this type of situation where they look around and sometimes they have to let some people go because the organization may be in trouble financially, but they identify what are the skills and assets that each of their employees are bringing, and how do they best utilize those skills and assets so they can turn around what is a boat that may be going the wrong direction. Usually there’s a board chair who’s willing to roll up his or her sleeves and get in there and do the hard work. And oftentimes that requires a little bit of humility, because they may have been there when the organization started to go off the tracks a little bit.

Julie Lacouture:
For leaders that might be seeing the turnaround before everyone else sees that it’s a turnaround situation, I feel like you have to find that internal champion or that person with some power who can say yes, I agree. This is exactly what needs to happen. I feel like you outlined sections of a book that you could write on this.

Trent Stamp:
Well, I bet Leslie could write it better than I can, because I observed it from afar, but she actually implemented it.

Julie Lacouture:
We should go back to every single guest we’ve had on and say, here’s the outline of your book. Now we need you to go write your book.

Trent Stamp:
Or we could just steal their best ideas and put it in our book.

Julie Lacouture:
Well, while you work on your book, let’s hear from Leslie.

Trent Stamp:
I look forward.

Leslie Ito:
Hi, I’m Leslie Ito. I’m the Executive Director of the Armory Center for the Arts. We’re based in Pasadena, and we’re a community based arts education and exhibition organization. We work with students from two and a half years old all the way up through older adults. And we teach art in all different kinds of [inaudible 00:04:42] from our onsite studio program, which includes ceramics lab, a letterpress program, both digital and wet lab photography, to taking our arts education programs out into the world to community centers, park and rec centers, schools, we work with incarcerated youth and formerly systems impacted youth.
I love food analogies. So one of the things that I’m aspiring to is for the Armory to be like Philippe’s Original French Dip sandwiches, where everybody, all people from all walks of life are rubbing elbows with each other and eating the same delicious French Dip sandwich. And so that’s kind of the feel that I’m going for at the Armory, is creating a welcoming space where everybody can learn together and really imagine your world together.

Julie Lacouture:
For those of you not in the LA area, [inaudible 00:05:45] is an LA institution. So I think Leslie, you need to throw some sawdust on the floor and have a 5 cent cup of coffee, and you’re almost there.

Leslie Ito:
I mean, we’ve been talking a lot about how to create a welcoming space, and we’re in an actual armory built I think in the 20s. So to warm up a space that was built essentially as a fortress is tough, but I think is a really interesting challenge for us.

Julie Lacouture:
Leslie, one of the reasons I wanted to talk with you is that I heard that you led an amazing turnaround in your prior job at the Japanese American and Cultural Community Center. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Leslie Ito:
Yeah. I joined the Japanese American Cultural and Community Center the JACCC, at a really pivotal time in that organization’s history. It had just experienced failed leadership transition. The staff morale was really deflated, and they were essentially about to close their doors and were contemplating a sale of the building. It’s almost a three acre campus with 880 seat performing arts center, a Japanese garden, and a five story office building an Isamu Noguchi sculpture and plaza in the middle of downtown. And when I stepped in, it was essentially a company that was holding real estate and renting out spaces. And so really one of the first steps that I did was to take a look and see how we could bring back programming. I think an investment in programming and really a return to mission was that first step.

Julie Lacouture:
So it seems like it was an organization that was just based on being a space that they would let anybody use, like you said, but there was no bigger purpose behind it.

Leslie Ito:
Yeah, very little. And part of that was because the organization had been in a state of really challenging financial times. So part of that turnaround was bringing back the programs and why the organization existed. And then the other part of it was fortunately the organization had a very diversified revenue base at that time. And so when I looked at the financials, it seemed that if we could raise the income in all of those different areas just slightly, it would get us to a place where we would be in better financial state. So everything from the office rentals to investing in grant writing and getting our foundation dollars back on track to selling tickets in the theater.
And so to incrementally bump up just a little bit each of those areas really helped to stabilize the organization. And then the board members at JCC were really committed, trusted my leadership, and really helped us get through those difficult times.

Julie Lacouture:
So the situation when you got there, it seems like a little bit triage, right? So what did you do first?

Leslie Ito:
Actually we used that term, triage, and we initially started with strategic planning. And then we realized that we had to put that on hold, because we were in triage mode we had to think in much smaller time increments, because we needed to stabilize.
The other thing that I did that was really important was I very intentionally in the first year was out. I never turned down any invitations to appear in public, because I really had to work hard at building back the trust for the organization with the community, and listen and be present. The physical presence was really important to building back that trust with the community. And I tried to be in as many places and talking to as many people as I could, because I needed to make sure that people knew that I was listening to the concerns and the needs of the community. And that they could trust that the organization was in good hands, and that we had a plan and we weren’t going anywhere, and we were there to serve the community.

Julie Lacouture:
I can imagine some people, myself included, having the urge to say, let me just get all the ducks in a row and then we’ll be more public. But the optics of that might be that you just are not there.

Leslie Ito:
Yeah, I just recently read an article about how museum directors are hired and expected to come in with this big vision and share this big vision with everybody. And actually, I wouldn’t say I don’t have a big vision, but I think the way that I deliver that big vision is maybe not what the field expects. My big vision is to create sustainable organizations, and how we get there are very small, incremental, strategic, and intentional steps. That’s the big vision.
If you’re a board member sitting and waiting for a big vision, you may miss it because it’s happening on a day to day level, and it’s both operational and strategic, and the organizations that I’ve led have mostly been in crisis. And so I think that steady hand of being very intentional and being very present and listening is really important in times of crisis.

Julie Lacouture:
It’s the philosophy of eroding stone not by chipping away at it, but by letting water run over it until it becomes smooth and wears away gradually.

Leslie Ito:
I’ve also been thinking of the analogy. We tend to think about this on the side of challenges and things that are difficult, but thinking about the thousand paper cuts on the negative side, just thinking about bite size pieces and how all of these things can start to lead to change. Change isn’t going to come overnight. I’m able to have a, a long vision. One of the things that I had proposed at the JACCCC was to create a Culinary Center, and we completed most of the fundraising before I left. And then the team that picked up after I left brought it to completion. So I’m really excited that the Culinary Center at the JACCC opened. It opened originally in January of 2020, and then it was just starting to start programming and booking.

Julie Lacouture:
Tell us some of the other bite size things you did at JACCC that stabilized and then get them in a position where they could be doing these new projects.

Leslie Ito:
Part of it was PR and outreach, and bringing a new face and being present, as I mentioned. I think the other thing was about building out the team and really making sure that I had the right people in place in terms of people that had the expertise to say, run a theater. And people that were there with expertise that I didn’t necessarily have. It’s absolutely right that the best way to hire is to hire somebody that’s smarter than you, and that has a different complimentary set of skills to bring to the table. So that was definitely part of the process.
And then just looking at how we could build partnerships and build bridges, both within the Asian American community and also with other communities of color, and really seeing ourselves as an asset, and being able to share the wonderful spaces that we have to gather and convene and make art together and showcase art was really important as partnerships. And then eventually we were building partnerships in Japan as well, and that’s really how the Culinary Center came into being.

Julie Lacouture:
So what were the results of all of these small steps done all at once? What was the result of your triage effort?

Leslie Ito:
Well, the result was a vibrant cultural center that was relevant. We listened to the community, we built programs that connected to the Latino and African American communities. That was part of the success, was that connection and relevance to community.

Julie Lacouture:
So let’s talk about your current work. Let’s talk about Armory Center for the Arts. What do you think makes your team run well?

Leslie Ito:
I was thinking about this question. I think what makes our team run well is the passion that everybody shares, and that vision for the power of the arts to affect, impact, and transform lives. We all share a belief in the idea that the arts are not just a frivolous, extra, supplemental thing, but that the arts play a really key and center role in everybody’s lives.
And I think that the pandemic really, really shined a light on this idea, especially the deeper and deeper we got into the pandemic, it’s clear that it’s not over yet, but that everybody’s mental health is really important, and that the arts can play a role in that healing process and the grieving and also to find a new path towards joy and whimsy.

Julie Lacouture:
So what’s the thing you’ve done at the Armory to adapt to the changing environment?

Leslie Ito:
We’ve done all of the things that that most organizations have, which is shift our teaching to Zoom. We taught schools on Zoom. We taught systems impacted youth that are in probations on Zoom. We started teaching art by phone with older adults because we needed to catch them up on the technology. And once we caught them up on technology, we were able to transfer from teaching by phone to teaching on Zoom.
So we’ve really learned through the pandemic to meet people where they’re at, and then start to nurture and help them along on whatever that trajectory might be. One story that I love about the older adults that started by phone is they were so invested in our art program that we had one student who had technical issues at home, lost connection and wasn’t able to get back on. So he jumped in his car and went to best buy and finished his art class in the middle of the store. And to me, that was so heartwarming. It showed that our classes are really making an impact, and the creative thinking goes way beyond just the art project, but really how do we solve life’s problems and our daily challenges with creative thinking?

Julie Lacouture:
I’m sure other people will have this question. Tell us more about art by phone. Are you talking about a conference call where there’s art instruction, or?

Leslie Ito:
Yeah, yeah. That’s exactly what we were doing. So we were teaching in an older living complex, and we delivered the supplies. All of the students had supplies, and they called in. And we were doing instruction by phone because that was the safest way, and that was the communication tool that they had access to and that they were comfortable using. And then little by little, we transitioned them to their computers and learning how to use Zoom. But I think it’s a great example of how we adjusted to meeting people where they’re at.
And similarly with our work in the schools, there was a lot of listening that happened first, because we wanted to be helpful to the teachers and principals, be a thought partner. Because each classroom and each teacher was at a different place in terms of how they adopted technology, we really had to listen and work with them and meet them where they were at. So we’re trying to be good partners, and I think that really starts with the listening aspect.
The other thing that I think is worth mentioning is after George Floyd’s murder and a local police brutality issue that happened in Pasadena, I had been building relationships with the National Day Labor Organizing Network, NDLON, and the NAACP Pasadena, and had just started to get to know some of their leadership and getting to understand the programming and what their goals were as organizations. So they hosted a car caravan after George Floyd was murdered, and so I called them up and I said, Hey, we have art supplies. We have teaching artists. We have people that are willing to help out. Tell us how we can be helpful. Art is so much a part of voicing our concerns and telling our stories that oftentimes go unheard. And so we were able to participate in the car caravans. We passed out, distributed art materials so people could make signs for their cars. And that has led to deepening relationships with both of these organizations, which I feel really good about.
So we are just about to embark on a new project with them, and we’re part of a collaboration of eight organizations in LA County that will have artists and residents in collaboration with community based organizations. So we will, together with NDLON and NAACP, we’re in the process of selecting two artists that will be hired full time with benefits and will be embedded in each of those community organizations to work alongside the community. And the Armory will help support the arts side of it. But we’re really excited to be able to do this. It’s a program that started in Western Massachusetts, and LA County is the next iteration of that. And it’s modeled after the WPA and their program in the thirties.

Julie Lacouture:
You’re painting a picture of an organization that thinks broadly about being an arts organization, not siloing yourself, and really being part of the community first in an arts organization second.

Leslie Ito:
Yeah, absolutely. I think. And it’s a really nice pairing, I think. It’s something that I feel comfortable in all of the shades of gray. Yes, it would be much easier to lead an organization that just did studio teaching, but I love all of the inner connections that we can make right now.
We have Alison Saar’s exhibition in our gallery space, and we’ve had really great attention on the show. And it’s really been a wonderful way to invite community groups in. A lot, it’s the first time seeing each other in person, and it’s their first time seeing art in 18 plus months. And it’s a really thoughtful, quiet show that allows for incredible dialogue and community building, and we’re so excited to have that be a part of our community building and as a space for learning.

Julie Lacouture:
So with all of the stuff that you’ve achieved, and all the places you’ve taken at the Armory, can you tell us about a mistake you’ve made, and what you learned?

Leslie Ito:
Yeah, I was thinking about the mistake, and it has to do with me as a leader. And I think the mistake that I made was at the JACCC, and my correction and learning application is here at the Armory. And that was because we were so much in triage mode at the JACCC, I gave 150% of myself. And I think that that was a mistake. My board members and my mentors were warning me against burnout, but I saw no other way to save organization except to give 150% of myself.
So when I moved to the Armory, it was a chance for me to recalibrate. It was a chance for me to say, okay, I’m going to put boundaries down for myself. And that’s been a really tough thing to do. I’m admittedly a workaholic. I love my work, the balance of spending time with my family and supporting my partner and being part of a family that has four generations. I’m living in our family, those are all things that I don’t want to miss, and I need to slow down on and create those boundaries.
And I’m also so focused on getting things done that I have to work hard at the celebration piece of it. By nature I’m always, okay, what’s the next thing? What’s the next thing that needs to be solved or created? But I do need to carve out that time and space for celebrating and finding joy. I’m also working on that aspect.
But I think for so many of us in the nonprofit sector, our jobs are our passion. There’s no dividing line between what we’re passionate about. We also need to find time to rest and carve out time to just sit and be quiet and take care of ourselves. And I think that the pandemic has really provided a time, especially when we weren’t allowed to leave our houses, and that really helped ground me and helped me to adopt a different kind of pace.

Julie Lacouture:
How do you set boundaries in your position? We all know that we should, but then sometimes a board member is only available on a Saturday morning, or we’ve got to take the call after dinner, but how do you do that?

Leslie Ito:
Yeah, that’s interesting. I mean, I did talk about setting boundaries. I think the flip side to that, and what we’re experiencing from working from home, is that there’s also fluidity, right? So I love that I can switch laundry from the washer to the dryer in between meetings because I’m working from home, or set my Instant Pot on to cook dinner in between meetings. So that actually has helped me achieve balance.
Maybe I retract my statement on setting boundaries, because maybe that’s an old school way of thinking. Maybe there is a different approach. I mean, I definitely feel like while I’m living a life that has less boundaries, I actually feel like this is more sustainable for me, that I’m able to manage the ebbs and flows of life as a mom of two teenagers and as an executive director and a leader in my community. That I don’t know, the balance feels better right now than it ever has. And maybe it isn’t boundaries. I don’t know. What do we [crosstalk 00:26:03]

Julie Lacouture:
Well, it sounds like it’s just not time based boundaries.

Leslie Ito:
Yeah, that’s true. I’m also, I guess, allowing for my body, my aging body to set those boundaries for me. I can’t work till 2:00 in the morning like I used to 20 years ago. There is a point where I have to stop and call it a night. And I’m also learning to listen to my body and my shifting sleep schedule. I think very intentionally when my best hours to check email or write a grant proposal or a donor letter or a public piece, those are the morning hours for me now, when it’s quiet and my thoughts are fresh. So I’m trying to listen to my body and the seasonality of the world, and kind of also incorporate that into my personal practice and how I approach my work.

Julie Lacouture:
Leslie, what’s your big idea for the future, and how will you get there?

Leslie Ito:
I’ve been thinking about the big idea, but all I can think about are these tiny little incremental steps. I think that’s my big idea. And some of these tiny steps are definitely around cultural equity, is what is really on my mind in terms of training staff and board, creating space for really honest and courageous conversations. The work, the journey that we’re on to create cultural equity within our organization is not the work of one person or one committee, but it needs to be the work of each one of us on staff and board. And each person committing to what they can do within their own little universe to create a more welcoming, more accessible, more relevant art experience for all of the people that come into contact with us, and the people that we are anticipating and want to connect with.

Julie Lacouture:
I don’t know. I think that you gave a true north to, and a big idea of wanting to be the version of Philippe. That feels like a big road to be on.

Leslie Ito:
I’m thinking about hosting a staff meeting, and/or a board meeting there, just as a real point of observation. And so that everyone can kind of get a taste and a feel.

Julie Lacouture:
It’s so good. It’s so special. So, Leslie, what’s your number one tip for someone in your position?

Leslie Ito:
When I worked at the California Community Foundation, I was part of a mid-career program called Career Pathways that was a national program hosted by the Council on Foundations. And one of the most helpful things that I learned in that program was called PCC. Pause, consider, choose. And it’s something that I refer back to quite often, particularly when I’m hit with a big issue or a big problem, or a challenge or a barrier. So pause, sit with the issue, the problem or the challenge, consider all of the viewpoints or consider all of the facts and feelings, and then choose. Take a position and decide what that action is going to be.
I find that with each situation we pause, consider and choose differently. We spend time in each of those areas differently, depending on the situation, but it’s really important to spend time in each of those three areas before getting to the final conclusion. And I think it’s interesting to reflect individually on, okay, naturally, where do I find myself spending the most time? Where, as a leader, do I feel most comfortable in the pause, the consider and the choose? And then knowing that there are these three stages, how do you counterbalance yourself? So if you’re a person that jumps immediately to consider without the first two steps, or you’re a person that lingers too long in one area or the other, how do you consciously and very intentionally recalibrate that balance?

Julie Lacouture:
That’s much better advice than count to 10 before you say anything, right? Because I feel like with the count to 10 you’re just waiting, but that’s a very lovely framework. Leslie, thank you so much for being here today. I really enjoyed our conversation.

Leslie Ito:
I enjoyed it too. Thank you so much, Julie, for inviting me.

Julie Lacouture:
We have a request for you, dear listeners.

Trent Stamp:
I’m hoping that if you enjoy How We Run, that you will go and leave a review for us. Your review allows others to find us, and that’s a good thing because the more people that listen, the more impact we can have on the sector, and then we can bring about positive change for other non-profits that are out there. So if you like what you’re listening to, please leave us a review.