Creating Spaces for Upcoming Leaders with Frank Velásquez Jr.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

My name is Frank Velásquez Jr. My title is Founder of 4 Da Hood

Lisa Baxter:

Well, Frank, thank you so much for joining us today. It’s been a real pleasure getting to know you and really learning more about your work. So let’s get into it. Give me your best elevator pitch, describe what 4 Da Hood’s mission is?

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

I think it’s pretty simple. I just want to see our people, communities of Color build our economic wealth and mobility, honestly, for our future generations. This country has been built on two different lanes, and it’s about time we need our people to thrive to build their generational wealth so that we can succeed just as everybody else in this country can.

Lisa Baxter:

Absolutely, and I think that we’re seeing more of that, which I’m excited about. If you looked on LinkedIn, everybody has something to say and I’m here for that because I just remember a time when everyone was so quiet and afraid to say anything. So tell me more about your flagship initiative, the Ascending Leaders Fellowship Program.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Yeah, so Ascending Leaders in Color, it developed as a concept, and I know your next question is probably going to lead into this as well because you asked how why I kind of honed in on it. So a lot of that bore out of my own experiences. So I’m a man of Color, I’m a Latino man. I identify as a Mexican, and 2017 I entered my first time being in a space of being an executive director, a CEO of a small nonprofit. I didn’t fully realize it at the time, but there was a lot of microaggressions or thoughts around what professionalism looks like. And so in these spaces, I almost felt I couldn’t be myself. And then wanting that desire, what I realized I should say, when I left that organization three years later was that in my entirety of my time there, I was never my authentic self.

A lot of it played into being first time as a CEO, first time in nonprofits, being very new to that sector. And then the other piece of it, quite frankly, was being a man of Color and noticing the spaces that I was in, which were largely whiter, the higher you got up, the spaces I was in when you’re talking about this particular nonprofit that I led, was really around providing opportunities, access and opportunities for students of Color primarily to succeed and get their education and get into these really good paying jobs.

And so in that type of advocacy, what I recognized was the gaps. The conversations were often led by white folks, and I have nothing against white folks. However, race and poverty are inextricably linked. So if you’re having conversations around food insecurity, for example, you got to bring the people in who are experiencing those things. Ascending Leaders in Color, really providing that space through my own experiences, not always feeling like the right conversations were being had, not always having folks that I could lean on. It was not the cleanest breakup when I left that nonprofit. And that was painful. And there weren’t a lot of people that I could speak with or talk with prior to that, but certainly after that, that’s when you start really feeling, “Oh, I need to access these folks.”

And so there was a healing process through that. But as I was really kind of looking back, I thought, “Oh my gosh.” And I started to have, Lisa, one-on-one conversations with my friends of Color. We’d have lunch or whatnot, I’d be like, “Hey…” I’ll pretend it’s you, Lisa. I’ll be, “Hey Lisa, I have this idea.” I said, “what if I created a space?” I said, “For no more than 10 people.” Part of my background, by the way, Lisa, is that I have experience in small group facilitation. And so I said, “What if I had a space where we’re talking about leaders, upcoming leaders, current leaders, and we give them a space just to talk about the things that we uniquely have to deal with, microaggressions, the bias of professionalism, the effects of assimilation, tokenism, colorism, code-switching.” And to a T, every one of my friends was like, “Oh, Frank, we don’t have that. That would be amazing.”

And so six months later, I want to say about May, yeah, it was November when I was having these conversations. I launched it and I launched two pilot groups. And the design of it, again is often my background. So I’ve learned restorative circle model. That is where you’re literally, if you’re in person, you arrange the seats in a circle, it breaks down hierarchy, any of those things. We have circle agreements. This is all part of the restorative circle model. And my experience already as a small group facilitator was just, it’s interesting because some people might call it a brave space, and I know we’re talking about bravery in this thing, but what I called it is, I call it a protected space. So I can’t guarantee safety, so I don’t call it a safe space.

I don’t know whether or not it’s brave or not. I’m hoping that people will share some things, but it’s a protected space. And in that space, we got to have these really heartfelt conversations. I give them some videos and some articles to read and to watch. The program is two and a half hours, first half hour I feed them. Again, it’s really to get away from that construct of, the meeting starts at 5:30. It’s like, no, this is our time to break bread together. So from 5:30 to 6 we eat, and then at 6:00 for the next two hours is the actual program. And so the Ascending Leaders in Color, I got about 10 folks in a space. We go over, let’s say the topic is code-switching. And I’ll say, I just gave you some articles and videos on code-switching, what resonated? And then I let it go. Being a skilled facilitator, guided facilitator, my job at this point is just to let the conversation go where it goes.

And that usually lasts over an hour. And as that conversation comes to a close, then I get to the next question. And the next question is, all right, we’ve just talked for over an hour. What are your takeaways from our conversation? And because there’s only 10, everybody has an opportunity to share what their takeaways are. And it could be something like, “Oh, when Lisa said something about so-and-so, oh, I really resonated with that and I didn’t even know that that was something to think about.” Again, because everybody gets an opportunity that lasts about maybe 30 minutes or so.

And then the last question, and these are all the same questions every time we meet. The last question is, because some of the topics can be emotionally jarring for some folks, maybe it’s something they haven’t talked or thought about in years. And then so I’ll say something, “Look, I know this topic was hard for some of us, and I know I can’t control how you’re feeling, but I want to acknowledge that I see how you’re feeling. So what are some ways can we re-center our joy before we exit out of our circle?”

And again, that gives everybody an opportunity to start slowly easing out of the circle. And they might say, “You know what? I’m going to go hang with my kids, or I’m going to go get some ice cream. I’m going to go spend some time with my partner or whatnot”, anything that they can start thinking about the joyfulness. And honestly, Lisa, I stole it from Power of Black Joy, and I know there’s truth in that. And I want to make sure that our People of Color that are in this space, that they’re not leaving completely raw, that they at least have something to hold onto and start thinking about the joy that they can experience through the muck that we go through.

Lisa Baxter:

Right. And I love that. I love how you’re also using words that do feel comforting, like a protected space, let’s recenter our joy. I have not heard it put in that way. I also liked when you said that you are feeling like the right conversations were not being had. And I feel like that is what’s been going on in the nonprofit sector and also beyond it as well, but that we are now being more intentional about what type of conversations we’re having and also to be authentic while we’re having that.

I also think it’s wild that in order to be authentic is a revolutionary thing. That is so wild to me, but you are creating these protected spaces so that these leaders can show up with that thought in mind so that they can then make more impact on their employees and the organization in general.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

And I would add to that, Lisa, thanks for bringing up the authenticity component again. Always say what the outcome is, and I always say this because a room full of people of Color, I never guarantee, “Oh, by the end of Ascending Leaders in Color, you’ll be fully authentic”. That would be a lie. But what I do say is I said, “The goal is to become more and more authentic because then that does lead to more and better self-advocacy, not only for ourselves, but for the staff that we lead.” So leading with more authenticity or at least being honest and stating that, “Look, you’re going to navigate white spaces wherever you are, especially in this country. It just is. So the goal is not to be fully authentic because as I said, it’s impossible, but if we can be more and more authentic, it leads to the bravery and the brave leadership that you’ve held onto as a theme for this particular discussion.”

Lisa Baxter:

Absolutely. And you mentioned that you had kind of what I call a pilot phase where you were talking to your friends and asking them, “Hey, does this sound like something that you think that will work?” So when you first started 4 Da Hood, I know you had quite a few initiatives. How do you hone in on this particular program as your, we always talk about what’s your niche, right? How do you hone in on this particular program and knew that it was going to bring that maximum impact that we need right now in the nonprofit sector?

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

That’s a great question, Lisa. I think the biggest thing, I think when I started it was, you know how sometimes people say, “Well, I didn’t know it was going to be this great.” I almost feel like it was going to be this great, yet to see it come together and observe the impact it’s had, people are, there’s a reason why it’s 10 people/ with 10 people, you have two hours, you can go really in depth and you don’t have to fill a room of 20 to 30 people because I don’t feel it’s going to have the same impact. So you’re asking about the impact or how I honed in on it. Once you saw those two pilots of May of 2023 when they launched, you could see the impact. Almost immediately people were just letting down their guards we’re having these really deep conversations and then the end result. I’m going to give you one example.

Somebody told me that she had never advocated for herself in regards to salaries or promotions simply because she led with the story she told herself that she didn’t have an education, meaning like a higher post-secondary education. She goes through this program or during the program, she has an opportunity to get a promotion. And she advocated for herself. There was a low range, a high range, and she listed out all the reasons why she should get the middle range. She said, “This is where I think I am. This is a fair assessment of who I am and this is what I believe I deserve.” And she got it. And so you can’t help but be encouraged and then certainly feel more empowered. You look at myself like I heard that, and then another woman gave another example and you’re just like, wow, they’re doing this in their real life.

Here I am and I’m starting my conference circuit in 2024, and it’s like I suddenly found myself advocating for myself in ways that I hadn’t before, even though I thought I was being brave. This program and its impact simply as a guided facilitator, I can’t help but be affected by it and impacted by it. So they’re feeling it in their way and I’m feeling it in my way. And I’ve gone through five cohorts and we’re on our sixth and seventh cohort, first ever white cohort as well, a white affinity group being led by a white facilitator who is a dear friend of mine. And we’re actually running these concurrently. Same location, we split off into our own rooms, but we break bread together and then we split off into our own rooms and we’re four months in and it’s been incredible.

So just feeling the impact and watching it grow and wanting to have virtual sessions as well, because I want to expand it out of Arizona. So there’s lots of goals in 2025 of how to continue to grow this. It’s just feeling the love and the impact and the change that you can see it on their faces. You’re like, “I got to figure this out.” It’s like, “How do you capture this and bottle it”?

Lisa Baxter:

And I think that’s what, because you’re also an entrepreneur, right? Whichever one you go by, social impact or what have you and I think to see that program that you’re like, again, I heard that you say you have to believe in it first. You have to be intentional with the structure and the format. You have to advocate, not just for everybody else, but for yourself. And so having all those elements come together and also creating a protective space where yes, it is very, you’re having very tough conversations, but people understand why they’re there and are really taking the time and effort to do the work. And That’s due to the groundwork that you’re laying. So, something must be working. And I think it’s incredible. I love hearing about people that are really making a difference in the world in their own way and not following a formula, that corporate presence, which is to me has been based in white supremacy, has led. So, it’s all good.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Yeah. Well, I should share even with that last comment you made, these are not exclusively nonprofit leaders. I have entrepreneurs, I’ve cheese. My third cohort, I had somebody who worked at the county, somebody who worked at a high school, a couple of entrepreneurs, somebody who worked at a credit union. So I am getting a mix of folks into this space because you can’t, the white spaces are everywhere. They just are. So it’s not exclusive to the nonprofit sector, but certainly what you said, I think it helps those who are in the corporate world who come through my program that may now have a new lens of having more authenticity, having more braver to say what needs to be said in those spaces.

Lisa Baxter:

And I love that because when you expand it out, you’re opening yourself up to so many audiences and so many alternate pathways to really get this across. Because I think that in all of our work, it should begin at the heart. And I think that’s what I’m seeing as I’m looking at all the wonderful people like you and some other folks that are really doing this work is like you’re getting back to the heart of the matter so that you can then go out and do the real difficult stuff because ain’t none of this easy. None of this.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Not at all. Not at all.

Lisa Baxter:

Yeah. So what have been some of the biggest challenges you face running a social justice organization that is seeped in the community-centric approach? I know sometimes when people hear community-centric, they’re like, “Oh, what is this?” So what are some challenges you face?

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Well, sure. And I’m going to start one with the obvious and then I’ll start with the one that’s a little bit more nuanced. I’m not, so 4 Da Hood is not 501(c)(3) nonprofit. It is an LLC. Initially when you said biggest challenges, and I know we’ll talk about funding, funding I think is the question six or something around that, but that is always a challenge. It’s like, how do I continue to get the funding to continue to have these conversations?

But to the heart of your question about just being a social justice organization, and then yes, as you said, steeped in the community-centered approach, I think there’s just a lot of fear. A fear of something new, fear of doing something different. Particularly, and you know this in the fundraising world, ooh, if you’ve done donor-centric for historically throughout nonprofits, it is very difficult to shift out of that because one, you think you’re going to lose money. Two, you’re like, “Oh, I’m going to have to… I can’t say what needs to be said to donors.” And so that’s the challenge, the fear of the unknown, the fear of losing that advantage, and then some of the most more obvious ones, the fear of losing that privilege.

Donors, I don’t subscribe to this, but I believe those who are afraid of the change will say, “Donors only want to do what’s good for them.” Meaning in the sense of, we have to talk to them and find out their interests and find out this and find out that. Versus the community-centered approach, these are the issues in the community that you live in. We often talk to donors as if they’re separate, that we other them. I don’t know how much more in-depth you want me to go, but I will say simply that there’s this fear that it’s an either-or. And I’ve always approached community-centered work as an evolution of a donor-centric approach because you keep a lot of the same principles, the frequent communication, thanking the donors and having those conversations with the donors.

But the community-centered approach is re-shifting the lens. And the lens is really, this is what the community needs. These are the community wants. You still have those communications, but you don’t treat the donor as if they’re the singular hero in the story. You treat them as one of many parts on how to rebuild and how to strengthen the communities that they themselves live in.

Lisa Baxter:

Yeah, and I’ve always loved the community-centric approach. I actually, that’s how I’ve always experienced myself in the sector being a fundraiser for over 17 years. I always saw myself as a community builder, but I would get my hand slapped when I had that community-centered approach with the donors. It was like, “Oh, you think they’re your friends?” That was not, it was like, I’m bringing them in. I want them to be part of this decision making. I want them to know what is really affecting the beneficiaries of whatever gift they’re going to be giving. I want them to understand. I feel like right now it’s like a coming home. We’re coming home to ourselves and getting back in touch with our humanity. I know it sounds a little out there.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

I love it.

Lisa Baxter:

But that’s how I feel. And now once you’ve finished with the heart work, you can get to the real work, right?

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Yeah.

Lisa Baxter:

I think that that’s what’s been getting in our way and stopping us for so long.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

I agree.

Lisa Baxter:

Yeah. So I love the words that you have that are part of your mission, transform, empower, authenticity, and joy. But the one word I would use to describe you as a leader is brave. I said that earlier. You’re not afraid to say what must be said or do what must be done. How can nonprofit leaders, or just leaders in general become much more braver in these uncertain times? Because honey, these are some uncertain times.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Well, I can say it in two ways. And certainly we have nonprofit leaders of all ages, but there is a touch of wisdom. The older you get, you’re like, “I don’t care so much.” Meaning in the sense of like, “I’m just going to say what I’m going to say and whatever happens, happens. I’ve been there, done that.” But I don’t want to give that as advice simply because I know how difficult it is in regards to any space you’re in, whether it’s your leadership, meaning let’s say you’re an executive leader and then you have a board, there’s nuances to that type of conversation. And if you’re an up and coming leader, so you’re not quite at that cusp of executive leadership, there’s certain things as well, and certainly I would say to the younger generation as well, there’s so many pieces and angles. So let me just say what I think the answer is because I think it’s expressed through Ascending Leaders in Color.

You got to find your people, find your people. I’m going to go a little deep here. So 2010, so it was right after the recession. It was in a marriage. It wasn’t the best marriage. And 2010, I had this whole career shift. Went from, I worked in training, I worked in the casino and hotel industry, had a period of time before 2010 where I was even unemployed for a little bit. And then I landed at Pima Community College, which is the community college here in Tucson, the only one. And I suddenly found myself leading a book club. That wasn’t even part of my job, obviously, but the program I led… Let me start there.

I was the program manager for a scholarship program specifically for Latino males. That subset is one of the lowest in college completion and so it was this national study, but I found connection, community in that role. I further found connection in community with the people that were working at the college through this book club that I… Somebody found out I was a trainer. They’re like, “Hey, you want to run this book club?” And I was like, “Sure.” And I’m not a book reader, but I felt I needed to know some of the people at the college, and that was the best decision of my life. I found my people. We had passion around helping students find their goals and whatnot. And I will say, the sad part is it was probably the beginning of the end of my marriage. Probably a good thing, for sure because I don’t think I’d be doing what I’m doing now, but I had my people.

And when I say, “So, find your people,” meet regularly. When I say meet regularly, it’s just whether it’s through a group, like a book club or whether it’s just constant communication or like, “Hey, let’s go out to eat.” Certainly five years after starting at the college and then going through my divorce, they could look me in the face and be like, “Right, let’s go get lunch. Let’s go eat.”So find your people, meet regularly.

Learn collectively is the third one. The learn collectively, again, I would say is simply we had a space at the book club to do this. In Ascending Leaders in Color, we get to do this. We’re not just meeting regularly, we’re actually learning something together to build each other’s support systems, which then I think then the last part, then it’s going to help us to lead with more authenticity. So find your people, meet regularly, learn collectively, you’re going to start leading with more authenticity is what I believe.

And of course, as we just mentioned, we need that if we’re going to navigate through this world, whether it’s through the white spaces or just navigating in general, having your people who can support you and love you and care for you, those are the things that will make us brave because I’ve experienced it throughout my life, but particularly since 2010.

So for the last 14, 15 years now, it’s been transformational for me accessing these people, moving from sector to sector, I should say. So higher education, nonprofit and then my current day job is a chamber. So again, you’re now I’m accessing these business communities. So all of those spaces I’ve built these things along the way, found my people along the way, and I feel that that is what’s made me, in your words, braver. I would say it’s just made me more authentic and yeah, less of afraid to say what needs to be said, even in the white spaces that I have to navigate.

Lisa Baxter:

Absolutely. And again, it always goes back to community. I think about the word self-made and I always abort it because I’m like, you’re never self-made because there’s so many people that are there to… For me, my mom was [Foreign language 00:24:14]. That means someone who prays often. I come from a long line of [Foreign language 00:24:18], so somebody is still praying for me, their prayers that they prayed for me years ago is still affecting me.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Love it.

Lisa Baxter:

So it’s like you are never alone in this. And I love how the first one was, find your people because that’s true. They give you that strength to be yourself, to say what needs to be said and do what needs to be done. So…

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Absolutely.

Lisa Baxter:

Yes. That is definitely an amazing lesson. And what are some of your brave strategies that you found most effective in fundraising and sustaining the operations of 4 Da Hood, because again, I know that it’s an LLC, but you have to be brave. I think anybody asking for money is brave, first of all. So, what are some of your strategies that have-

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Yeah. Well, I think I want to lead off by saying a couple things. So in 2023, the word of the year was intent. And so it was being very intentional about growing the business, doing things in a way that I hadn’t done before. So just being very intentional and it really worked. You are talking about strategies, brave strategies. I had my day job. I was really concerned about are they going to let me do this? And I’m like, “It has nothing to do with my day job, so why wouldn’t it be okay?” I was like, “How am I going to figure this out?”

That’s when I accessed LinkedIn. And so a brave strategy was putting it out there saying what I was going to start, which was Ascending Leaders in Color. I said, “Hey, I’m looking to start a pilot group,” two organizations, and I’m going to name them since this is a podcast, really helped grow Ascending Leaders in Color.

Well, first one was Community Investment Corporation, Tucson, they’re called CIC for short, CIC Tucson. Basically, I only needed 10 people, if you remember I said earlier, 10 people for a pilot group. If I had 8 or 9, I’d be fine with that as well. So I put it out on blast on LinkedIn, CIC Tucson reached out, and then our local, it’s called the Community Foundation for Southern Arizona, recognized that I didn’t have space. And they said, “Hey, we’ll donate the space.” And then CIC Tucson said, “I think I might have some people who are interested.”

So fast-forward a couple of weeks and I’m getting a lot of interest, but no commitments. So then I’m like, here’s the brave part, it’s like, I’m just going to ask, “Hey, can you give some scholarships.” I’m like, “I’m getting a lot of interest, but no commitments.” Went to CIC Tucson first, and I said, “Hey, can I get some scholarships?”

“Write me something up. We’ll figure it out.” I’m like, “Okay.” So then I go to Community Foundation and they said, “Hey, can I get some scholarships?” And they’re like, “Yeah, write us something up. But is anybody else investing?” Fortunately, I’m not saying that I would’ve lied, but maybe I would’ve. But I’m so glad I went to CIC Tucson first because I was like, “Oh yeah, CIC Tucson, they’re going to be giving me some scholarships,” and I think that helped. And so then Community Foundation reaches out first, they give two scholarships. I already had one that was going to pay, so there was three. So I’m like, “Oh, if CIC Tucson gives out…” Oh, I know what he said. He said, “I can’t give you five scholarships,” because that’s what I had asked for, “but I’ll do a matching. So every one of my staff who’s interested, I’ll provide a matching scholarship you can give to anybody.” I’m like, “All right.”

Fast forward four weeks. Seven of his staff are interested. And I said, “Does that mean I got seven scholarships?” And he goes, “Yeah.” So suddenly I had 14 slots. Well, 14 from them, two from this other organization and another one. So now I have 18, about 18. So instead of one pilot, I ran two. So be brave, just ask. The worst they can do is say no. And that absolutely helped launch Ascending Leaders in Color because now you got almost 20 people went through those first two pilots and now they’re your soldiers out in the community. And every time I hear a name or somebody sees a connection, they’re like, “Oh, I went through that program.” So I’ll say that part of it first. Actually, oh and so that was my, for 2023 was that, was intent.

2024 was action. And action just simply meant, okay, I’ve got to put a lot of action into now the work I’m doing and this means exposure. So to me, that meant I got to get out on the conference circuit and Lisa, that’s where I met you, early last year, so that’s pretty cool. It was like May of last year. I ended up doing seven or eight conferences and six of them were national. So that was very, again, that was my action step to again, bringing more and more knowledge to what I’m doing.

So now I’m coming into 2025, and I gave you a hint into what just happened in 2023 to get these two organizations. Those were all built on relationships. So that is my word for 2025, because I’m going to be going full-time with 4 Da Hood, and I am going to need my relationships, just as I described in 2010, how those relationships grew when I was at the college, all the relationships that I’ve built since 2010 and to today, I’m going to need to access them in the sense of like, it’s going to be a scary year going full time doing this work. I’m even getting emotional right now. It’s going to be difficult. And I’m excited, but I’m nervous. And so I want to access those folks, and I know they’re going to be there for me through the dips, through the good times, but I’m excited. This is really exciting for me. So, the word for 2025 is relationships.

Lisa Baxter:

I love that. I love that, the vulnerability, because these are the things that we don’t often talk about how we do a lot of these things while we’re scared because there is a, all of that, it’s like there’s nothing there. But if you have God in your life, that’s your faith. We’re just going out on faith. And what I’m hearing is that it’s about your relationships. It’s about bravery, how you’re leveraging your tools, how you’re exposing yourself, getting out there into the world and letting everyone know what you’ve done. And I remember when you said that you were reaching out to everybody on LinkedIn and that intent, you talk about those words. And I also have the word for the year, and it definitely does help to set your focus for that year. And I think that when you’re being brave, you absolutely have to be the one that has that belief beyond everybody else.

Because let me tell you, there’ll be so many people that’ll tell you, “Oh my God, what are you doing,” to do whatever, it has to be so ingrained in you. It has to be a part of your breath every time you, so that’s even being brave, just holding onto the fact that a million people could tell you it’s not going to work. And you’re like, “No, I see the vision. I know that it’s going to work. Get out of my way so I can do my thing.” So I think that is a beautiful way to begin the year. I’m so proud of you and what you’ve been able to accomplish and what I know you will be able to accomplish moving into this year and just focusing on relationships. And I think, again, whether it’s a nonprofit sector, for-profit sector, it’s all about relationships. It’s all about building that community that is going to engage and do the good things that we need to be done in this world.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Well, I don’t know if have last words, but you said something right as you started that, right after I finished, and then you started, you mentioned vulnerability. And often vulnerability, I shouldn’t say often, but I’m sure in certain circles can be looked as a weakness. And what you said, no, the strength in it is being vulnerable. And so that’s where the bravery comes in. I’ve gone through so many things and so many dips and so many highs as well, and this is the part where it’s like no vulnerability is absolutely being brave. So when you’re brave, in my opinion, there has to be that element of vulnerability that’s allowing you to be into that space of bravery.

Lisa Baxter:

Absolutely. And I hope people take more heed to that and they become more comfortable and feel more protected when they are in that state of mind. Well, thank you so much, Frank. I appreciate you.

Frank Velásquez Jr.:

Thank you.