Building Teams with Kamilah Martin

In this episode, we’re joined by Kamilah Martin, the CEO of Kamilah Consulting. Kamilah shares her journey from non profit staffer to consultant. She has served as an interim director for many organizations, and she has some wonderful guiding principles on how to help your team show up as their best selves.

Kamilah Martin: My name is Kamilah Martin. I am the founder and CEO of Kamilah Consulting. We support black and brown women who are transitioning from their director and executive level nine to five roles into independent consulting. 

Julie Lacouture: Kamilah, welcome to How We Run. I am so glad to have you here. 

Kamilah Martin: Thank you. It’s really so good to be here.

Julie Lacouture: We met so long ago that you and I were both in different jobs and I want to say different industries almost on different career paths when we first met. And then we recently reconnected because I’ve been just gobbling up your content on LinkedIn, basically. 

Kamilah Martin: And then we had interesting conversations of how did we know each other? Was it this? Was it this? 

Julie Lacouture: We couldn’t remember. Yeah, it was one of those, one of those things. We are connected, but we could not figure out how. So I am so glad you are here. And I’m so glad Lisa, you’re joining us for this conversation. This is going to be a really good one. No pressure to everybody. 

Lisa J. Baxter: So tell us a bit about how you started doing interim leadership roles.

Kamilah Martin: I had zero plan to enter this space. I just fell into it. Honestly, at the time I was a vice president running U. S. operations of an international humanitarian organization, needed to leave. There were various things going on within the organization and we were in 2020. And I just felt the need to go and to protect sort of my health because mental health, sanity, all that.

So I started being really vocal about my journey and my transition on LinkedIn, sharing what led me to the decision, how I was navigating this new space. And people just started reaching out to me. It was the craziest thing, something I’d never experienced. It was funny. At some point in my life, I thought one of my big goals was to have a recruiter reach out to me and offer me a role.

This was, I was probably in my twenties at the time, just like in awe of people who that happened to. And those things started happening and I attribute it to just working really hard for a really long time and maintaining relationships. And so I was sharing with some friends that I was leaving my role.

And someone reached out to me and asked if I could support her as she was shoring herself up in a new president role at an organization. She then, when we were done, recommended me to an executive director who was on her board, who needed a new interim chief program officer. That went really well. He referred me to someone else.

And so that’s how it all began. I was very lucky in some ways, but I also think that there were probably a lot of like work that I was working without even knowing leading me up to be able to take that leap and then be successful in that transition. 

Changing the narrative and finding permission for transition

Lisa J. Baxter: And aren’t we glad that you did because what it really sounds like to me is that you first had to give yourself permission to say, you know what, this specific place that I’m at is no longer serving me and I need to leave and figure out how I can best utilize my talents.

And in that, you’re also giving people their permission to change their narratives. I think that’s really powerful work. You’re doing the Lord’s work out here. 

Kamilah Martin: It’s so funny you say that because I do feel sometimes that it’s bigger than me. However, that might sound to those listening out there. I was never really vocal before this transition on LinkedIn.

I was very reserved and wanted to make sure that I was presenting myself a certain way. Worried about how others would receive how I’m showing up. And then I just stopped doing that. I stopped caring. I started just talking from my experience. And honestly, the last three years on LinkedIn has been just me, the highs and the lows and the dirty and the sometimes cursing and the things that I never felt I had permission to do before.

And then as I started doing more of that, more and more women started reaching out to me, asking me to help them in their transition, or at least, re-envision what their next steps could be. And so that’s what started the other arm of Katalyst from consulting into supporting basically Black and Brown women leaders who are looking to bet on themselves in a different kind of way.

I do feel like sometimes it is bigger than me. 

Transitions in Leadership: How to establish trust and resilience in teams

Lisa J. Baxter: Absolutely. And it’s a reminder that our voices are vital, that our experiences are – even though it may not be something that someone goes through specifically, somebody can take some inspiration from that. And I think that’s a very impactful thing and something that I think more of us should do.

And I think more of us are doing that. LinkedIn is actually, I think, blown up in a whole different way. I’m glad that we have that as an outlet. What are some common pitfalls in leadership transitions? 

Kamilah Martin: I talk a lot about the relationship between ego and leadership. As I’m working with leaders, as I’m working with myself on the decisions that I’m making as part of Katalyst and being very mindful around what’s showing up in certain moments.

So the transitions that I’ve seen be successful are ones where there is some sort of ability of the leader and the leadership team to step back and remove themselves and all that they’ve been part of with the organization, with the situation. And first of all, look and see what the organization really needs.

The power of the pause is another thing I talk a lot about, as opposed to being just incredibly reactive. Having a moment of time to sit first of all, with yourself and then with the others that you collaborate with and other stakeholders to identify what is it that we really need right now. And then take yourself out of the equation and say, what is it that the teams really need right now?

I think a lot of people forget that when these sorts of transitions happen, a lot of times it can be a traumatic experience for the staff, depending on the circumstances under which the leader has left. Sometimes the staff really loved the leader and appreciated their leadership style. They’re feeling some sense of grief, right?

The person that they worked with for a very long time, just no longer being there and the ground feeling shaky. And sometimes it might’ve been a pretty tumultuous exit, right? Where people aren’t as happy leading into that sort of leadership transition. So you have to assess where the staff is. And I think those two things, assessing the leadership team, what the needs are in the moment, and then taking a step back to really assess what do the teams need right now. And so when I step in as an interim, I joke that I wear the hats of therapist, advisor, strategic partner, board liaison, all of these certain elements that are interconnected in us as human beings that we can’t just shut on and off, particularly when you’re dealing with changes in general, like not just abrupt changes, but anytime there’s a change.

There likely is some sort of emotional kind of reaction that needs to be navigated. Some people have the sort of self awareness to be able to do that. Others are going to present in different ways. And you just have to really understand that you have to take time to really see what the needs are. So I hope that answered the question, but I’ve seen it done really well.

When people are able to step outside of their ego, step outside of being right all the time and trying to present that persona of having all the answers and someone who’s really open about what’s going on, open about the experience, has a strong communication sort of plan around how you’re discussing it and then taking time to figure out what your people need, who are in the trenches, actually doing the work.

 Nurturing connection in teams

Lisa J. Baxter: And you said it yourself, the power of the pause. I don’t think that there is any more greater advice than that. I think for everybody, cause I think we’re all feeling that and your human centered approach is what I feel bringing all of these different teams together from different backgrounds and dealing with different situations.

And I think that’s something that we should all want to achieve. And I really feel like the title of your company Kamilah, you are doing that. You’re going in, you’re changing, not just the workplace, you’re changing hearts as well. And I think that is a really important point. 

Kamilah Martin: I really appreciate you bringing that up because that really was the impetus behind the name.

I think when I decided to leave my role, there was an email that came and I say that email was my catalyst moment for that decision of saying, okay, this is enough, I’m done. And then it then just came to me as I was my paperwork, me wanting to use that experience as a catalyst really for other women to feel that it’s something that they could explore for themselves.

Everything that we do as part of the company, I just wanted to feel as though we’re providing this safe place for people to mess up, for experimentation, hoping to be a launching pad and a catalyst to another way of existing for however long it feels right. It’s another thing I always say, I don’t think we need to think of these decisions as like a be all end all rest of my life type of situation.

Cause I think that’s when people get caught up in the fear of the unknown. When you break it up into a chunk of, I’m going to give myself a year of going all in on myself and just see how it feels. Learn some lessons, pivot, meet some people, have some fun, try some new things and then reevaluate. And if at the end of the year, it doesn’t feel good, then go get another job.

I don’t think any of us have gotten to this point in our careers, in our lives, to where we’re going to be struggling, needing to fear like that, that deep level of what if this doesn’t work out? I think every one of us has it within us to really figure it out. And I just want those women who want to try to know that they have a safe space to experiment.

 Building diverse teams based on trust and safety

Julie Lacouture: You mentioned assessing teams and leadership teams. What does that assessment look like from your point of view? 

Kamilah Martin: So I think it’s just innate in me. 

Julie Lacouture: I love hearing that. 

Kamilah Martin: I don’t have a framework. I think one thing that’s really been valuable about my experience is that I’ve worked my way up from the bottom.

I came out of college and worked at sort of Enterprise Rent A Car. I was washing cars out there for a while. Then I did like a corporate training program assistant. And so I, I’ve known what it’s felt like to be in every seat, pretty much within an organization, again, working my way up to VP in house. And then now CEO, I did a bunch of entrepreneurial stuff woven in there.

And so a lot of it is just lived experience, which is something that we talk about a lot, but I don’t know that people really understand the value of it when you’re hiring people and when you’re considering people who have been in the trenches or have learned lots and lots of lessons over many years, I think you can assess the people who are actually learning in each step.

And those that are not quite there yet that can come out and interview questions and things like that. Even just experiences who were the people that are willing to take risks and how would they learn from those failures, those sorts of things. Lived experience is incredibly undervalued and underappreciated.

I tend to respect a little bit more, or at least respect the journey a little bit more of those who have worked their way through some things, right? And cause I just think that’s incredibly valuable, particularly when they get to the point where they’re managing people, cause they’ve been there, done that.

And I think sometimes they can make some of the best managers. 

Julie Lacouture: I think you’re bringing up a really important point to say they’ve lived some things and learned from it. Cause not everyone is as self aware as you, and then sometimes I think all of us have experiences that we’re like, I choose not to be self reflective in this moment.

I’m not my best self. I’m not learning from this one. But I think someone that consistently does that is what you’re identifying. 

Kamilah Martin: Absolutely. And you could see that again, that can come out. And again, the questions that you asked, but I tend to think you can see that on resumes. You can look at people’s, the lines between what it is that they’re doing next.

And asking questions about how they’ve overcome challenges and what lessons that they’ve learned from particular challenges or experiences in their life. I just think that’s incredibly valuable. I think one thing to remember is they might not come in the package that you think they should come in, but there’s a lot of internal and intrinsic and learned things that can come from people that might not be as polished and buttoned up as you might be used to. And I think those are the people that I tend to lean towards and want to learn more about, and to give opportunities to. Let’s be real, because I think a lot of times, those people might be looked at in a certain way, or not having experience, or not coming from a certain college, or whatever.

And that tends to be what keeps people from elevating at the same pace as others. Another reason why I think it’s important to have people with different lived experiences and positions of leadership and power within organizations is because they can then see things outside of sort of traditional lenses.

And I think that’s really valuable in building productive and effective teams. 

Julie Lacouture: You made my transition for me because when we first started talking about you coming on the podcast, you said something along the lines of you feel like your specialty is building good teams. So I wanted to ask you, what do you think makes a team good?

Is it that diversity of experiences and lived experiences or how do you look at what makes a team good? 

Kamilah Martin: That’s the first thing I looked at. I look at who was bringing something different to the table. I don’t want everybody to think the same way, do the same things, have the same experience. I just think that adds the best value that you can get out of the gate.

Number one. And the second thing is trust. I spend a lot of time initially, even now when I’m doing these shorter term, interim gigs. Getting to know the people, having the people who I’m working with and who might be reporting to me, understand me and my expectations. I let folks know when I don’t have all the answers and do my best to try and find them, but I’m very transparent about what their needs are to do their job and what my capabilities might be in that role to support them to do that.

I think taking the time and taking the step back, and maybe this is the pausing part as well, where folks just want to dig in and go. That’s fine. You might produce some results, but it’s not going to be as effective or as efficient unless you have taken that time to build that trust with your team. And it’s going to be different for every person, making sure you’re building trust with the people who are reporting to you and training and empowering them to get to know their teams, that their teams feel like they have support.

Quote unquote leaders. So that’s how I answer that question. I take a lot of time on culture. I take a lot of time on getting to know people as people before I’m overly concerned about their work product and let folks know that they can ask me questions. And like I said, I’ll do my best to find the answer.

I think there’s the book we move at the speed of trust and the quote we move at the speed of trust. I’m a very firm believer in that in any relationship in life. 

 Human-centered leadership: Strengthening teams through connection

Julie Lacouture: Yeah. There are some things that you are seeing that are holding teams back. 

Kamilah Martin: I think there’s an interesting phenomenon that’s happening right now where there’s a lot happening in the world and we are very privy to visual reminders.

Consistently of what’s happening in the world. And I think one of the challenges that I still see, and this is a challenge that I had in my last organization, I think particularly was like, what kind of prompted me to leave. I’m just like pretending that stuff’s not happening and pretending that people aren’t drained and hurting and scared that I don’t think you are going to get anybody to show up as their best self, not your child, not your partner, not your friend or anybody if you’re asking them to turn off parts of themselves and it’s still expecting to do what you want them to do. I just think just rationally, it just does not make sense to me. And I think a lot of folks are still so focused on the product and the output and the strategy. Particularly in the nonprofit sector when the stakeholders are worried about the image that they’re not taking time to really pause and remember that at the end of the day, we’re people and we need to make space for that.

And I’m not saying like take a whole day’s off. I’m asking people to figure out what it is. And to reflect within the organizations, what does their organization need and provide that to make their teams feel like they can do their best work and not pretend like the world isn’t on fire, or there’s just a lot of stuff happening every day.

I’ve noticed in our community, our Katalyst community, there was a period in the summer where people were like, I’m taking apps off my phone. I don’t want email on my phone. I don’t want dings and rings and bings and bongs. I want to basically control my environment because I’m so overstimulated by what’s happening in the world and just all , the sounds and things around me. I’m telling you, it’s a larger thing that we are not talking about. I think we’ve had probably four years now of collective trauma for lack of a better word. I’m not a professional to know that I’m using that word appropriately that we just, we have not sat and dealt with.

And I’m seeing in the teams, I’m seeing in people’s people getting upset about things they might normally not get upset about. There’s just a really short fuse that’s happening in one aspect. And the other aspect, I feel like it’s awakening a sense of empathy in folks too, and I hear that in the teams that I’m talking to, people want to be there for other people.

It’s a strange thing. I don’t have the name for it, but something’s happening and I think we’re going to be better for it. I really do. If I think we stay aware and awake to ways that we’re evolving as people as well as in our workforce and in the ways that we work 

Julie Lacouture: What advice would you give to a manager or do you have managerial tips on giving teams space to bring that into work. 

Kamilah Martin: I think it starts before anything’s going down. I remember I was working remotely before remote work was a thing since 2012, I believe. And we just checked in on people, literally Google chat and text, and we knew what was happening in people’s lives. If you are doing the work to create that safe environment of letting people know when you’re feeling stuff too, and just checking in how are folks doing, what’s the temperature, what do you need?

And you can do that in one on one meetings, just asking people simply, what do you need right now? Understanding that there’s a world and reality outside of their work reality and not pretending that doesn’t exist, I think is probably the first and biggest step, just accepting that people are fully human with fully human lives and lots going on at the same time and making work not just about work and providing some space just for some humanity.

Julie Lacouture: Yeah. That’s a really nice actionable tip that I think pays off. I think that’s really wonderful. Another thing that you have talked about, I’ve seen you talk about this on LinkedIn of why so many people are leaving their nonprofit jobs to become consultants. And I feel like this is the start of a lot of the work that you’re doing.

Do you feel like it’s related to the, we’re going to be here to work and I’m not going to address the larger context of what we’re all living in? 

Kamilah Martin: I think people are tired of faking and playing games, and I’m going to say particularly women of color, especially if you’ve worked yourself up to a certain level, there are just, there’s so many contortions that you have to put yourself through to be deemed acceptable or to have your voice heard.

And I think people are just, two things are happening. They’re recognized that they’re tired. They’re done with it. That’s the first biggest one. And then it’s once you have that feeling, okay, what’s next? And then they’re realizing they can figure out something else. I think what COVID did was helped us innovate and helped us to see that in various areas of life, things don’t have to be the way that we’ve always been doing them. And I think a lot of people turned on some hidden part of the brain that’s been dormant for a while to figure out how am I going to survive in this moment? And that created a spur of innovation and creativity.

And I think there’s a lot of women who have gotten to this point in their careers where they have some savings, they might have some retirement, their kids might be at a place where they may not be babies anymore, so they can have a little bit more like flexibility. And I just think people are thinking what other options exist.

I want to continue to do good work. I know I have a lot still to contribute to society. I still believe in the missions of nonprofit organizations and supporting communities. There’s still that element of people wanting to still do good work in society. They’re not ready to just roll over and be done.

And they have options for what that’s going to look like for themselves. Some in our community, and particularly some have partners who can support, which is a privilege and a luxury. There are those of us who I was a primary breadwinner for my family. So it was a even scarier when I decided to leave, but I did have retirement.

I did have savings. I had a 20 year network of colleagues that I knew would have my back if I needed support from the moment I decided to now. And I think folks are just experimenting with what that can look like. There’s a lot of people that are taking sabbaticals or using your partner’s income to support the family in a different way.

I think people are thinking differently. Gone are the days, I think for most of us, my parents were like, you get a good government job, you get your benefits, and you get your pension after however many years. I remember growing up, I remember thinking that wouldn’t be me, because they were miserable, and I did not want to be miserable for it until I was 65.

And so there’s something that’s just awakened with various aspects of kind of that whole environment for folks to have the confidence to feel like they can try something else. 

 Creating safe spaces for women of color

Lisa J. Baxter: Kamilah, you are not only just speaking my language, you’re speaking to my heart. I too left an organization at the end of 2021.

So I was a part of the great resignation because I was tired as hell. Tired to put in the words of my therapist, the racial trauma had become too much being in the nonprofit sector for over 17 years, mainly being the only one or one of it just got too much. And I did take a sabbatical. I honestly, I didn’t know what I was taking.

I just thought sabbatical was the best word to explain it. So when you speak about the reasons why we’re seeing a lot of, especially people of the global majority, black women in particular, now coming into being consultants, I think it’s because they don’t want to deal with all of the shenanigans that, for lack of a better word, that happens.

We don’t talk enough about what that does to your spirit. We talk about this human centered leadership, but we don’t talk about what that does to your spirit. So you can’t show up as your best self in these spaces. Like you mentioned before, it’s like you have to give your team room to show up like this.

So what really drives you to continue to do this work? Because I’m hearing a lot of things that I’m hearing from you. I’m like, yes, amen. It’s like, I’m going to church. So what really drives you to do this work? 

Kamilah Martin: I want to create the safety that I don’t feel in the world. And I want other black women to know that they have a space for that, not feeling appreciated, not feeling able to be who you are.

And I think that’s going to be the world for a very long time. It’s hard to envision a world that’s not that just given the reality of life. I want to create a space that’s not that, right. Sometimes I do feel like, beyond me, I wake up and have swirling ideas. I’m creating what I need. I’m my own customer.

So I’m very attuned with what the people who are attracted to Katalyst need. It’s a unique kind of personality. There are women who lean introverted in the Katalyst communities. Things impact us differently. We’re very adventurous and idealistic in the sense that we can create our own reality in a certain way, feeding off of each other’s energy.

We start to believe that. No matter what chaos is happening around us, this is our safe, protected space. Being able to be who we are, not having to explain, be taken care of, frankly. I was never in a sorority, so I don’t know what it feels like to have that level of safety, but I’m just in this professional world where we are busting everything to save organizations, to improve teams, to do good work, to save our communities because they’re underfunded in other ways. So we’re killing ourselves trying to make up the difference. I just want us to be protected and I want us to be poured into. We, from the professional standpoint, I think we do that through Katalyst with helping people build their consultancies.

And like I said, just experiment and pilot and play and see if this is something that feels right to them. And then also through the events that we do just making sure that you have a space that you can exhale. You can not make any decisions. Nobody’s calling your name. You leave your kids at home and just use the space for how you need it.

And I don’t know that I’ve seen a lot of that out there in the world. So I guess why not me? 

Lisa J. Baxter: Safe spaces, protection. Like for me, it’s the words are giving right now. It’s so ironic. A friend of mine, I was speaking to her on Saturday and she was telling me that she came upon a thread of mainly white folks talking about that when they were younger, their parents said, if they ever get lost, go find a black woman.

And I thought that was so wild. I had never heard that, but it makes sense, right? It’s everybody comes to black women for protection, but we are not protected. So when you talk about safe spaces, literally my heart is melting because honestly, when people ask me, what did I ever need? That’s what I needed to feel safe, to be supported and to be valued and not have to train you or teach you how to do that.

When we talk about safe spaces. I think a lot of times it’s hard for leaders, especially leaders that are not of the global majority to wrap their hands around that because they’re like, how do I create safe spaces? How are you able to educate them on that? 

Kamilah Martin: I don’t, I’m at a place in my life where I preserve my emotional labor and emotional energy.

And I think there are people who are better suited to have that kind of conversation and training. I’m not trained in, honestly, I think there are people who are experts in that people are ripping up to shreds DEI, and I think we’re going to see the repercussions of those decisions. I think there are people who do it really well and who enjoy that and who can provide value there.

I provide my value elsewhere. 

Lisa J. Baxter: And I appreciate that because, you know, all the jobs don’t need to fall on Black women, people or people, the global majority is a thing. It is a thing that people, I feel, need to, like what we talked about earlier, get back to a deeper sense of experiencing our humanity. It’s so, I think it’s harder to experience it when you’re, you’re so locked into a phone and what social media has and everything is like at such a fast pace, and I just appreciate that you said, that’s not my ministry. And that’s how I feel about it too. That’s how I feel at a lot of not just Black women, just people in general that did leave during the great resignation. They’re like, I don’t have it in me to teach you this. I just want to be in spaces where people’s eyes light up when they see me.

People value me and all those good things. How do you think there are some ways that leaders can support people of the global majority?

Kamilah Martin: So I think a lot of people would put it on the person who Is Black or Brown to get some coaching and how to navigate those spaces. I almost feel every board member, every senior leadership team member needs to have a DEI equity focused kind of coach.

And I think it all, I feel like a lot of it starts with us and you can’t look for someone else to do your work. I think that’s another thing that makes great teams. People who again, have that. Ability to self reflect that they can’t do it themselves to figure out what kind of support they need, whether it’s a therapist, whether it’s a coach or whatever, you got to start with what you’re working with and what you’re contributing to the situation and not necessarily first step to look at what you can provide for the other person to feel supported.

And just, what are you bringing to this whole soup of humanity and need to have relationships with each other. So we’re about to announce I’m hiring a director. A wellness director in residence for Katalyst, basically to support us through the end of the year, through this election season, particularly, and again, while everything’s swirling around the world, this is going to be our safe space where you can come and you have the breathing exercises once a week, yoga, chair yoga, sound baths, whatever, to center yourself.

I think there’s different opinions on this, but I think there needs to be some sort of wellness focus. And not repairing harm necessarily, but catching it before it gets to that point within organizations, I think that could really be valuable as well. But I ultimately feel like it starts with the individual person.

So get some coaching, get some therapy and figure out how you’re contributing to the situation. 

Lisa J. Baxter: I don’t think people understand what a gift it is to be uncomfortable. Because when you sit in that, you can see where you can be better, do better and all of that. And that’s what I’m really getting from this is that, you have to be uncomfortable and be okay with that.

Kamilah Martin: And would you say that goes along with the conversation around privilege too? Because I feel like a lot of us are uncomfortable all day, every day and navigating that. And I think that’s why we’re so exhausted because we’re trying to navigate that. And there are people who have never had to be uncomfortable.

And I think that a privilege quite frankly, and I think you’re right. The more you put yourself in a situation where you’re going to have to look in the mirror about some things, perhaps the better off the energy around you will be and the people you interact with and engage with will be because you’ve had to take that step back and that pause, full circle, to understand just how you’re showing up in situations.

Yeah, I almost feel like it’s a privilege to not have to be uncomfortable. 

Julie Lacouture: We started this conversation talking about transitions and changing and a little bit about how the world is right now. But Kamilah, where do you see the nonprofit sector going next? Do you see any areas of growth and change? Where are we headed?

Kamilah Martin: Yeah, I think because we’re typically so lame, I think I don’t even want to put out the actual data figure, but most nonprofits are under some crazy small number budget amount, right? Dollar figure. So we’re mostly small organizations that I think have greater opportunity to be flexible and be creative and be nimble, but we can experiment the organizations that are going to navigate this shift that I see happening are going to be the ones that recognize that it’s happening and figure out the best way to put it back together.

The foundation is shaking, things are shaking and moving around. And the way we put this back together in this next sort of season of the ones that do it well are going to be the ones that are successful. And I think the ones that are holding on with the ones that are holding on sort of white knuckled to the way things have been are going to really struggle.

I don’t necessarily think that people who are working in nonprofit organizations are going to stop thinking about what else is possible for them. And I think as they continue to think about what’s possible for them, as the millennials get a little bit older and have lived through several things, they’re able to innovate and be creative.

It’s just going to keep going. So we can either adjust and figure out a way to bring in more part time support because people want to work that way. Bring in more consultants and budget for that because people want to work that way. It doesn’t have to be this fixed idea of the way we’ve been working.

Cause a lot of people don’t want that anymore. We’re going to have to figure out how to have everybody meet together and figure out what that equation looks like and how we all get along in that environment, which I think is possible. I see it all the time with the consultants I work with. They don’t want to work in a nine to five W2 health insurance.

That’s just not. They’re not doing it anymore. And so I think there’s going to just continue to be more and more people. And that’s my perspective because that’s the lane that I’m in right now. I think technology is going to shift some things for us as well with AI. So I think get on it now and understand the interworkings of it and how it can support your organization instead of fighting it.

There’s a lot of consultants and a lot of other organizations that are helping nonprofits right now navigate that space. Yeah, things are changing and it’d be up to the sector to decide whether they want to hold on to the way things have been done or evolve potentially to something more impactful. 

Navigating transitions in the new workforce

Lisa J. Baxter: And is there anything you’d like to share with our listeners that can really help them just in this – I call it a moment. I don’t know how long the moment’s going to last, but it is a moment. Is there anything you’d like to share with our listeners in terms of advice or how do we meet this moment right now? 

Kamilah Martin: I think I would say, sit with yourself and decide where you want to be when this moment finally fully emerges.

And how you want to be part of the puzzle and how you want to be part of the solution. I challenge everyone all the time to let go of the supposed to’s and let go of the way that you think things need to be done and think about what if they were done differently and let that energy ride with you to see what potential solutions can come for yourself in your own life for the way you want to work, how you want to parent, just how you want to exist in this world because I just think something is opening up for us to seize and experiment with and try, and I think it can be really valuable if those of us who want to and are curious about it, lean into that and just see where things go.

Julie Lacouture: Tell folks where they can find you online. 

Kamilah Martin: So, katalystconsult.com is all the things that we do at Katalyst and how we can support you. If you’re a black and brown woman in nonprofit looking to transition, if you’re an organization that needs some sort of quick expertise for your organization, I handpick and offer you referrals so that you don’t have to drag it out for weeks and weeks, trying to find someone to support your team.

And also LinkedIn is the place where I blab the most. Kamilah Martin, you have my name. Just find me on LinkedIn. 

Julie Lacouture: I’m going to give a testimonial on your LinkedIn, like this is the highest quality blabbing I’ve ever seen. 

Kamilah Martin: I take it. 

Lisa J. Baxter: Thank you. Thank you both. Thank you, Kamilah. This has been amazing. We truly appreciate you. 

Julie Lacouture: And that’s a wrap for today’s episode of How We Run. We hope you found some valuable insights and practical tips to help your nonprofit achieve its goals. Whether you’re tackling a big fundraising campaign or finding new ways to engage your board, we’re here to share those stories and strategies that make a difference.